Friday, March 13, 2015
Persona 3 vs Persona 4 Which Game is Better Part 2 Characters
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Its time for round two of the Persona 3 vs Persona 4 throwndown! Yesterday I went over the story elements, so if you want to know whats up with that be sure and read the breakdown here. Today we are moving on from that and instead analyzing the characters in hopefully not as many words as day one (but who knows? I sure dont!). Who will win? Who will lose? Which of these amazing JRPGs will come out on top? I dont even know; I havent written it all yet! So Im just as excited as you are!
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Excite...ment? |
Lastly, due to the nature of the games, this section has something a little different: I break Persona 3 down between Persona 3/FES and Persona 3 Portable. Not a big deal (any points I allocate to P3P will be given to P3 in the end), but I felt that distinction was necessary considering how different the new character in P3P is with regard to social links and the like.
Lets get this show on the road!
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You, after reading this. Maybe. I make no promises. |
Part 2: The Characters
Main Character
As a preface to this whole thing: yes, Im aware the main character in all three of these games is a silent protagonist. Im also aware that theyve made anime adaptations of both games (as well as given Yu from Persona 4 a personality in Persona 4 Arena), but I dont care about any of that crap. Im basing this analysis on both character responses (your only real way to shape the character) as well as their overall significance and impact on the story. Got it? Great!
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Your main man in Persona 3 is a blue haired, emo looking dude with headphones who keeps his hands in his pockets 90% of the time. He comes off as a quieter person, with most of his story-related responses being relatively lukewarm in nature in either the affirmative or negative. He does have a few opportunities to give a little backtalk (particularly to Junpei), but mostly the guy feels like hes along for the ride.
Its important to note hes elected leader not for any particular leadership quality, but more because out of the initial options he was the best choice (and he was the only one who could easily use the Evoker to summon his Persona without hesitation). Its odd that when more skilled leaders enter the equation (Mitsuru) they keep him on as leader, but he wouldnt be a main character if they didnt, right?
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"My favorite band is Death Cab for Cutie. So what?" |
The protag has a rather lengthy backstory that ties into the rest of the characters and the overarching plot. In fact, his connections with Nyx and Pharos are considerably stronger than the rest of the team, making him almost fall into that "prophesied one" niche of main characters. It is nice to see that he has a history that ties him into the plot, but unfortunately thats about all the character development they seem to have done for this guy. In terms of a personality, hes almost offensively bland, and while I know these types of characters are supposed to be blank slates to allow the player to project onto them, the guy was so generic he was incredibly hard for me to identify with, much less project onto.
Its not bad, by any means, Im just seriously confused as to what all the girls I dated saw in him. Mustve been into kids with long, blue bangs.
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P3P added an entirely new protagonist, a female main character. While the story (including her backstory) remained the same as the males, its worth nothing that the female main character is considerably more likable. First off, her responses have some genuine snark to them (should you choose to go that way). She feels much more opinionated in her social links, as well, and rather than feeling distant from everybody she feels more like part of the team. She has a good blend of both sarcastic strength and genuine empathy that makes her extremely likable as well as highly competent.
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She still has creepy demon eyes, though. |
She even has the bonus of having her backstory be the same, and thus tie in well to the remainder of the story. In every sense, shes the best of both worlds.
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The main character in Persona 4 is supposed to be 16 or 17, but for some reason has gray hair. What is up with that, grandpa?
That aside, the protag of P4 exudes leadership qualities, and in spades. His responses are often level-headed but he is also willing to make jokes at other characters expenses. He never really lowers himself to engage in trivial debates or arguments, but he also isnt afraid to joke around and tease the other characters.
The story in Persona 4 required your character to be a leader, and the main character delivers on all fronts. But aside from that, he just seems like a fun guy to be around. I get why girls would like him; hes empathetic and actually cares about people, but does so from a levelheaded distance. He doesnt get overly emotionally invested but instead serves as a rock for both his teammates and those he social links with. The guys just that solid friend you have around, not necessarily because hes exceptional at any one thing, but because you know hell be on your side when it matters most.
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Hes bringing sexy back. |
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Considering all the positives I heaped onto Persona 4s protag this might come as a surprise, but I really felt Persona 3 Portables female protagonist knocks it out of the park. P3P was made after Persona 4 and I think it shows; they took all the positives from the original protagonist (his backstory, ties with the story and other characters) and just twieked the personality to be much more likeable. She literally is the best of both worlds here: funny, intelligent, a solid leader, and with a strong connection to the story at hand. While I really like the Persona 4s main character, he felt a little too much like a shell when compared to Persona 3 Portables. Your mileage may vary, but in this throwdown P3P wins.
Also, her fashion sense is great.
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Make the right choice. |
Party Members
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In Persona 3, your squad mainly consists of fellow SEES members, some of which knew each other before you join the game, and others you recruit along the way. While all the characters are interesting, my biggest beef with them is that they seem to hardly interact outside of either the dorm at night or fighting during the Dark Hour. You do run in to Junpi and Yukari around school, but interactions are usually kept at a minimum. A few standout moments ("Operation Babe Hunt" and the school trip) show the characters interacting in a more casual environment, but overall most communication happens around business, which frankly just isnt super interesting. I blame Mitsuru, because she takes everything way too seriously.
The social links are also fairly hit or miss. Both Yukari and Mitsuru have a lot of past to dig up, which results in some interesting backstories. Fuukas entire social link is kind of a waste, to be honest. Instead of focusing on something personal like her being bullied, its all about getting her to cook better. Thats it. Come on!
(Note: Despite this, Fuuka is still my favorite girl from P3. No, I dont know why. Just letting all you Fuuka fans know Im on your side, I swear!)
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These guys. |
Out of the whole crew, Junpei feels like he has the most change over the course of the story, mostly due to his relationship with Hot Topic Girl. While Yukari and Mitsuru have their moments, most are driven by the plot, not by the characters, which is great for the story but bad for developing them as individuals.
Dont get me wrong: I think all the characters are a lot of fun, but I didnt feel particularly connected with any of them. Akihiko and Shinji may be my bros, but that doesnt mean I understand them as much as Id like. And thats kind of a shame.
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I felt this spinoff deserved a mention because, should you pick a female protag, you can actually social link everybody in your party (including the dog. Koros social link: best social link). Probably the best part about this is that Shinjis social link is exemplary because his scenes usually end up involving the other party members along with him. This adds a bunch of much needed group dynamic to the SEES members, making them seem more unified and friendly to each other, which was lacking in P3/FES. I cant praise the Shinji link enough for doing this; it completely vamps up the entire SEES dynamic in the best way possible: it makes them feel like genuine friends that do stuff together.
And while Akihiko and Ken might not have been quite as fleshed out as Id hoped theyd be, being able to finally understand where they are coming from does a lot to help me like them more. Junpei too, though Id never admit it, because I dont like Junpei. Seriously, hes that friend you have to hang out with because he really likes you, but you dont really like him back and kind of think hes annoying. But burning through his social link, I couldnt help but start to like this guy. I feel you, man. I feel you.
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Yeah, no. |
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When it comes right down to it, Persona 4 feels like the whole game is about its core team. Youske, Chie, Yukiko, Kanji, Naoto, Rise, and Teddie are not only extremely likeable, but interact better than most fictional groups Ive seen. This is partially due to the fact that they all have fantastic chemistry before the game even begins: Chie, Yukiko, and Youske already all know each other, and Kanji and Naoto do somewhat as well. Rise and Teddie are odd ducks out, but Rise is famous (so shes still "known") and Teddie is...well, hes Teddie. Hes a riot. Added bonus that he has the whole "fish out of water" scenario working for him as he tries to understand the world outside the TV world.
Persona 4s story is about discovering onesself, which means it has an automatic advantage in terms of developing its characters. Before a character even joins your party you have to go through a dungeon created by their own mind, as well as help them accept their Shadow (basically the darker, exaggerated version of their repressed thoughts). Because you essentially see their most intimate side, you get a free kickstart into understanding their character, and the rest of the time is spent working from that point. Its almost like cheating when it comes to character development, but you cant argue with what works.
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These guys. |
Some party members certainly have stronger stories to tell than others. Youskes entire arch seems to hinge around accepting both the death of his crush and the fact that hes working at essentially the Wal-Mart of Inaba, putting small businesses out of work. I like the guy, but his link isnt particularly compelling. Chie is struggling to find out what exactly it means to protect people and be strong while coping with her perceived lack of femininity, which sounds interesting but frankly doesnt dig quite as deep as I felt they could take it. Yukikos problems involve dealing with both the expectations of her family and still wanting to be independent (and learning to cook), while flip-flopping back and forth the entire time. Even if I feel some of the connected party members stories could have been better developed, I will say this: they all tie into the theme of the game very well. In a game about finding out your darker side, accepting it, and then deciding how to move on, the social links all fit in perfectly. There is also a strange familial underpinning to almost every characters story (including the protags), but I wont get into that here.
But if all else fails, Persona 4 has two rather major trump cards: Kanji and Naoto. These two characters (particularly Kanji) might be some of the most complex characters Ive seen in a video game. The only character I can think of off the top of my head that might be close would be Kaine from Nier, but even she didnt go into as much depth as these two. Kanji is kid who is terrified of being perceived as weak, and even more scared of not being accepted. Unfortunately (at least according to him), his hobbies tend to lean towards crafts and other "feminine" past-time (again, at l`east in his own mind), which makes him worried about his masculinity. Kanji overcompensates by playing the tough punk, at the expense of both his reputation and his school studies. When he falls for Naoto, whom he believes is a boy, he starts questioning his sexual orientation as well and struggles to understand what it all means. All this: his desire for acceptance, his belief that he has to "be a man" even though nobody is imposing that upon him (except, one might argue, socitial norms), and his relationship with Naoto is done extremely well. So well, in fact, that I considered writing another entire article about both Kanji and Naoto. But I probably wont, so there.
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Kanji, mah bro. |
Naoto is equally interesting, though not quite as ambiguous as Kanji. She (told you thered be spoilers) poses as a man because she wants to live up to her familys reputation as excellent detectives, and fears that society (and the police force) wont accept her for the genius detective she is because of her sex. While her arch ends up being considerably less ambiguous if you max her social link (there has been discussion as to whether or not Naoto is a transsexual based on her Shadow, but her dialogue pretty clearly ends up stating her desire to be a man was mostly based on expectations of her family, not personal belief that being male was her true gender, but take it as you will), its still a topic rarely covered in games (if ever; again, Kaine).
The most important part about this (and all the characters) is that whatever a character is struggling with isnt what defines them. It would have been very easy to play Kanji off as some gay joke (which Youske sort of leans towards with his homophobia in the early portions of the game, but even Youske has an arc in that regard), but instead hes just another character and his orientation questions are just a layer of depth on top of him. Its masterfully done, and makes all the characters seem considerably more real. Kanji: you da man. Also youre hilarious.
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Social links. Totally realistic. |
Lastly, and perhaps the actual biggest plus in Persona 4s favor, is the tight bond you feel with these characters by the time the game ends. You interact with them frequently, with tons of cutscenes happening just throughout the week, many of which have no bearing on the overarching plot save to show the group hanging out and having zany antics. You find out Chie is actually scared of lightning (who would have thought?) and Naoto cant ski (in P4G). These characters have such phenomenal chemistry you cant help but love them, so much so that Atlus knew it, adding more scenes in the Persona 4 Golden remake that, again, have no bearing on the plot but are just entertaining to watch. That, to me, shows the strength of these relationships, when I can watch them go off and do nothing and still be thoroughly entertained.
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Based on how much I wrote above, this shouldnt come as a huge surprise, but Ill go out and say it: I love Persona 4s characters. Like...unfairly so. I like them so much that after I beat Persona 4 Golden (which was my fourth time through Persona 4), I wanted to start over and play again just so I could continue to hang out with them. The only other time Ive felt this connected to a group of characters in a video game was Nier, and that one only had to make me like four of them; P4 has eight (if I count myself). They have such excellent chemistry, boosted by the fact that Atlas put tons of scenes of you hanging out in that game, get tossed into some absurd and hilarious situations, and present such a fantastic group dynamic its really hard to top it.
I dont think Persona 3/P3P has a bad party. In fact, I think they do an excellent job in fitting their story roles and making the overarching plot better. But, really, thats the bulk of what they do. They feel more like business associates and less like a group of rag-tag friends. This might be the fault of the age split; in P4 most of the characters are in the same year in school as you (I suppose Rise, Kanji, and Naoto arent, but they still hang out with you at school), while in P3 both Akihiko and Mitsuru are a year older than you and like...never hang out. Also Mitsuru is cold, man. She just kills fun wherever she goes. But I still like you, Mitsuru, just...you could like...I dunno, unwind every now and then.
So yes, Persona 4s main cast really shines here. Theyre fun, funny, charming, and above all: hilarious. It makes me wish I had that many friends in real life. :(
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Thanks, Marie. |
Side Characters/Social Links
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Oh man, this is already going to be dicey to break down, but Ill do the best I can.
As a preface, Persona 3 was the first Persona game to introduce the idea of Social Links. So, in a way, it was a trial run at these sort of bite-sized character stories that help strengthen both the character development of the protagonist and create a bunch of memorable side characters.
That being said, while I enjoyed a hefty portion of Persona 3s Social Links, a lot felt either mediocre (Yuko, Mamoru) and others completely just fell flat (Kenji, Tonaka [though to be fair, his is funnier in context with P4]). In most instances, the weaker ones tend to focus less on larger issues and more on simple conflicts. Kenji likes older women, so he thinks he gets one and then finds out he didnt. Thats the entire social link. Tonaka is a greedy businessman (granted, hes a funny one), who doesnt really learn a lesson but by the end does donate some of his money to charity, if for greedy reasons. They just arent particularly impactful, and the worse ones (again, Kenji, I cannot stand the guy) are boring and obnoxious.
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Yeah, no. Never. Go away. |
The old couple at the bookstore also compliments the theme, with them learning to overcome their sons death both as a means of letting go and moving forward. In fact, a good deal of the social links in Persona 3 dont end happily; they instead result in the characters discovering something about themselves that allows them to take their troubles in stride, realizing you cant win em all, but winning isnt necessarily what matters. Which, again, ties into the theme of the game really well.
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Im warning you little girl: depressing things happen to those who know me. |
My only other complaint is that, especially in 3/FES, I often felt the main character was a non-entity in a lot of these stories. With Kenji or Tonaka you feel just along for the ride, as with many others. This ties into the persona of the main character (like...his personality, not the demon he summons from his brain), where hes just kind of a loner, quiet guy, and not necessarily particularly social. It fits the game and the character, but makes him considerably less interesting when interacting with his social links.
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This section should technically be shorter, because in P3P a lot of the extracurricular social links were removed and replace with the (arguably superior) social links within your party. Mostly they just trimmed the fat (Kenji is gone, woo hoo! As is the Gourmet King and the Rival Athlete), but they did add two new ones that are worth noting. A new sports girl is added into the, who has to deal with both the team being a bunch of slackers as well as her love life (which is, to be fair, almost identically gender swapped from the Daisuke sports social link in P4). Hers is decent, but what really sets it apart is there are scenes throughout the game of the main character interacting with both her and Rio (a sports club social link in P3 male protag) which really shows a lot of chemistry between these characters and, oddly enough, the males on the sports team. Its a stronger bond, and Im glad they put it in.
The other new social link might be one of my absolute favorites out of all of them, and it is atrociously heartwrenching. Saori, the Librarian/Heath Committee member, a student who is a year older than everyone because of being transferred between schools so much. Quiet and reserved but dying to be socially accepted, her desperation gets her dragged into a relationship scandal that ends up completely ruining her school life. This is one of the few social links that (like the Dying Young Man) absolutely does not end on a happy note. Yes, she learns to accept herself or whatever, but I was actually upset at how things ended up for her. It didnt pull any punches, it didnt even try to sugar coat it. She was a merciless victim of bullying, and the victim lost. There are some really excellent scenes in this one (if only they could have used this storyline for a more prominent character afflicted with bullies, like Fuuka).
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WHY DOES YOUR STORY HAVE TO BE SO SAD :( |
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Persona 4 already swept the last category by a landslide, and I have to say: it really puts up a fight here too. As I mentioned in the P3 section, that first game felt a bit like practice, with social links being all over the place in terms of quality. Persona 4, on the other hand, is solid across the board. This mostly has to do with a more unified sense of theme: all the conflicts in the stories are very specifically about encountering a part of yourself that you dont like or is holding you back, learning to recognize it, and then overcome it. The social links blend into the main message of the story very well, and since the formula theyre following is basically "How to write a fictional character 101," it makes sense their social link stories work better as character anecdotes.
I actually only recently finally got to see all the social links in P4 (thanks to the extra month in P4G...that stupid tutor kid finally got maxed), and there were very few I felt were duds. I may earn some flack here, but I felt nothing for Yumi in Drama or Ayana in Music. Yumi in particular came off as grating in her random mood shifts, going from ok to emotionally compromised and back to ok like a flip-flopping politician (maybe she applied to the Yukiko school of What am I going to do with my life? switch-a-roo). I guess its to be expected that the Drama class would have...well...drama, but I dont really feel connected with her.
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Check that baggage at the door, Yumi, I aint got time for this drama. |
That being said, even the ones I initially thought Id hate still ended up ending strong. Ai in particular I couldnt stand so much Id never go out with her, but she ended up having one of the most interesting arcs of all my school friends (though with almost enough drama to give Yumi a run for her money). Even the "lesser" ones like Hisano (Death) had some really good points. Again, following the theme really worked well.
But, again, Persona 4 has a massive, overshadowing trump card: the Dojimas.
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...I may need to reconsider. |
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Ill be your new dad. And brother. And mom. Just please, for the love of god, dont be sad Nanako! I cant take it! |
Ryotaro Dojima is equally complex, if on a different side of the coin. At first I was genuinely annoyed at the guy, always putting his job before his family, no matter how noble he kept preaching it was to me (Im sorry you are worried about your dead wife, but your child is alive right here and needs you, dude). However, after burning through his social link, I had a total reversal. He went from being a neglectful parent into a conflicted man who wanted the best for his family but didnt know how to show it. It was clear that his wife had been the emotionally undersatanding one in the family, the soft-spoken, caring parent that knew how to help their daughter. With her gone, Dojima was completely lost, and reacted in the only way he knew how: investing himself in his work with the hope that solving the case would bring peace to Nanako. This is a character with an incredible amount of depth and a good deal of heart besides his prickly exterior. I cant...I just cant even begin to explain how good this guy is, and the fact that hes put into context even better with Nanakos social link only makes it all the better. Its just really, really solid character development.
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Honestly, if it had just been Nanako and Dojima, P4 probably still would have won. I still cant get over how well integrated into the story while still not being part of the main party these guys are. Nanako especially because she has more interaction with your friends, but Dojima as the other half of that puzzle. The two together are not only imperative to the story, theyre just straight up interesting and compelling characters, and you cant help but get attached to them. The rest of the social links in Persona 4 are standout as well, but those two absolutely steal the show.
That isnt to say Persona 3/Portable falls short. Again, it has some really good highs, but how on earth are you going to beat freaking Nanako?! You cant. Its impossible. Cause every day is great at your Junes, etc. etc. I mean they gave her a freaking catchphrase. P3 just didnt have a chance.
Thats it for today! But what are the scores for todays battle?
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If we tally up the total from yesterday, we get...
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Wait, a tie? Seriously? All that writing and theyre tied?! Ugh, what am I doing with my life...
Well, theres still one chance at a tiebreaker. Next time well burn through Graphics, Gameplay, and Music for the final throwdown at which of these two games reigns supreme.
Do you have an opinion? Am I completely wrong about everything? Care to discuss character nuances from these two games? By all means, leave a comment and well talk. I love talking about these games, and any and all critiques, comments, or just general nonsense is appreciated. Even weird Persona fanart. Maybe. If its good.